Can anyone explain to me why porn still has such a stigma attached to it?
The entire industry still has this stigma like it's something dirty and disgusting. Now, while there may be certain fetishes and acts that may not be to your tastes, and may go against your hygienic preferences, but let's leave that aside. Let's talk straight up fucking. Gay, straight, orgies, whatever. Just straight up fucking.
There are a lot of people who look down on porn just because it depicts in stunning detail, what many people still only do in the dark. I don't get it. Are we trying to step backwards and put sex back into some locked room? Are we reverting back to Victorian-era ideals where women would lie back and think of England?
Porn is nothing more than fantasy. That's all it is. Visual fantasy. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just a form of stimulation that can be enjoyed solo and for masturbation (and not even that, sometimes it's just the stimulation that someone wants), or *gasp* by couples who are adding in visual stimulation to their physical stimulation and pleasure.
If I were in a relationship, I'd rather have my partner spanking his monkey every day to porn whenever I'm not there or simply don't have the same drive than for him to be repressed or to go out and cheat on me because he isn't getting what he needs. Simple fact. I don't feel threatened by porn. If you do, I think you have to work on your self-esteem or examine what it is that your partner is getting from it that they're not getting from you.
But going back to the stigma of being associated with porn, I still don't get why. We have porn stars that are household names, idolized and adored, even role models for people (not children, just people). Porn stars have reality TV shows, books, etc. Hell, some have been in major motion pictures. And vice versa: major motion picture stars have been in Playboy, some of them more than once. They've posed nude, they've posed in compromising positions by themselves or with others. So what's the problem? If people can transition from one arena to the other and no one really cares, what's with the stigma?
Hell, one of Hugh Hefner's former girlfriends (and I believe she was or is a porn star) is on Dancing with The Stars. No real issues there. But one of the professionals? She posed for Playboy and there was immediate backlash about whether she should continue to be employed by the show because she's not presenting a wholesome image; in essence, children shouldn't be looking up to her because she was in Playboy.
Also, who is porn hurting? Really? Don't tell me about guys who hurt women because they saw it in porn. That's bullshit. There was more going on with those guys than they just watched a lot of porn and waxed their carrots. And don't tell me porn subjugates women and demeans them. Do you know who's in control of most of porn? It's not the director...it's the female actress. She gets paid anywhere from 3 to 10 times as much as her male counterpart and if she's uncomfortable with something, that's the end of it. It doesn't happen.
Porn is just another medium of imagination and sexual expression. I think that if more people were open about their sexuality and their sexual natures, things might be a bit easier for us all. It's one of the last areas where you can be judged based on your "proclivities."
You're not really allowed to judge people because of what they wear, what they believe in, what their politics are, etc. (I mean, we do, but it's not usually acceptable), but if you mention someone has a high sex drive, particularly if that person is a woman, and if they indulge that drive? Time to bust out the torches and pitchforks and drive the raging harlot from society.
you pinpointed the problem, women aren't allowed to like sex. Women aren't supposed to be in control of sex, they're supposed to defer to men and let men have all the control And if they're in porn, being paid to be someone's fantasy then they are in complete control. If a woman has a high sex drive and isn't ashamed of it that means she's a whore and ought to be ostracized from society because that's just not acceptable.
ReplyDeleteIt's bullshit fear left over from our largely patriarchal and highly religious roots. Sex is just sex, porn is just porn. Get over it and move the fuck on.
Harlot is one of my favorite words. I wish I were a porn star, I mean how great would that be, really?!
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly my point. There's no reason for the stigma.
ReplyDeleteIt's just a natural act that's been filmed. People film themselves for fuck's sake.
And Sarah? I dunno if I'd wanna do porn, but I've totally considered being a higher end escort. Just move to England or Australia where it's legal lol
WTF happened to my comment?!
ReplyDeleteI've already made movies and enjoyed it so I figure if I got into the business (cause thats what it is) then I could make money doing what I love (isn't that everyone's dream, to do what they love?!) and I could make some of my fantasies that would other wise be super hard to do come true.
I'd so be an escort too.
I was a housewife/stay at home mom for 3.5 years and loved it. That being said, to me being a housewife is pretty much getting paid be a maid and escort.
Eh, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree vehemently with pretty much all of this.
ReplyDeleteHow is porn different from cheating? They both involve getting sexual satisfaction from sources other than your spouse (or your significant other, if you will). Porn is almost worse, because it forces your significant other to compete with a set of fantasies they can never live up to. It sends the message that "you're not good enough," which is a terrible message to send to someone you pretend to love.
For that reason, I think it's insensitive to say that people who feel threatened by porn need to work on their self-esteem. Building up self-esteem may help shield someone from the effects of porn, just like building a bomb shelter can shield someone from explosions. Being sheltered from a bomb doesn't mean that the bomb has been rendered good or helpful.
Really, I think porn is a symptom of the selfishness that suffuses our society. Of course, not everyone agrees that selfishness is bad. There we face an impasse.
Direchihuahua
This is a very touchy subject with me. When I was married my husband would watch porn INSTEAD of coming to me for sex. I have a huge problem with THAT. However, if I had turned him down or hadn't been around I see no issue with it. It IS different than cheating. He's not actually involving anyone else in his act, it's just him. To me, I see no difference in him watching actual people on a screen then if he was playing out a fantasy in his head. Because most people do that, especially when they are masturbating. And living up to ideal standards? What about the men and women we see every day on TV? I personally think that we're being held up to those people, not porn stars. Most people know that your husband is probably never going to go for XYZ, or that your wife won't do ABC. That's WHY most people watch porn and/or fantasize because we KNOW we won't ever do that. It's part of the appeal. I also think porn can help many relationships. Some people want to explore but don't know how or even what. Porn opens up a ton of doors you or your partner might not have known about. Yes, porn can be harmful to a handful of people and/or relationships but personally, I think they are few and far between. Oh, and they probably have other problems anyway.
ReplyDeleteI have a few points.
ReplyDelete1. I submit that the mental aspect of cheating is exactly the reason why people find it repugnant. If sex was merely a biological urge like pooping or peeing, there would be no reason to condemn someone for it. You would simply have to realize that he or she had sex with someone else because it was necessary for their continued health. This is not the case. The major reason why cheating is generally considered a bad thing is because the person has decided to make an emotional connection to someone else. Porn is largely a thing of the mind, so I see no reason not to find it exactly as repugnant as cheating.
2. For the sake of discussion, I'll grant the generalization that most people fantasize sexually. Even so, it's a logical fallacy to say that a behavior is good or beneficial because most people do it. For instance, most people in the U.S. overeat, yet myriad studies show that overeating is a harmful behavior. Pornography (especially when coupled with masturbation) is as physically and psychologically addictive as overeating, and I would argue that it's easily as harmful, albeit in a different way.
3. I completely agree that television provides many opportunities for unfair comparison. However, I would say that porn creates even more such opportunities. Very few TV personalities walk around completely nude, after all. The more you can see, the more you have to compare.
4. This may not be the case across the board, but in my experience pornography rarely stays on the screen. It makes you want to damn the consequences and try those acts in real life. Sometimes the price is quite high. In fact, I would argue that porn increases the likelihood of someone cheating. After all, in a world where my desires are paramount to all others, why wouldn't I go to someone else if my significant other wasn't willing to satisfy them?
5. I don't think porn is needed for exploration. There are plenty of good guidebooks out there. Heck, the internet's full of sex resources that aren't porn-related at all.
6. Do you know any relationships that have been helped by porn? If you do, I'd love to hear about them. Personally, I don't. In fact, I know plenty of relationships that have been hurt by it, some that have been completely ruined.
Damn damn damn, my original response wasn't able to go through :(
ReplyDeleteLet's try this again.
I don't think that the presence or absence of porn is the underlying cause of relationship problems. I believe it may be a symptom of a larger symptom. Dishonesty and the inability to communicate openly and honestly with one's partner.
Many people turn to porn because their sex drives are more active than their partner's. If the partner is fine with them using porn as a way to satisfy themselves, then it doesn't hurt anyone. But if it's discovered because it's been kept secret and in the dark, that's just perpetuating the problem. Sex is a major issue in any relationship.
Sex is a simple biological urge. The biological imperative/directive to propagate the species is encoded in our DNA, and sex is the way we do that. It's the strings and morality that is tied around it, the stigma attached to it by religion, Victorian-era ideas of propriety and dignity, even Puritanical prudishness that is still a part of society today that makes it into something dirty and repugnant and disgusting that is kept in the dark and untalked about.
Sex is such a taboo subject that researching it and finding something that isn't clinical and cold is particularly hard, especially if a couple is trying to find a way to explore their shared fantasies. Porn is the easiest and simplest way to do that, but it requires that the couple is open with each other about what they like and want, and able to communicate without embarrassment.
Sex in general is so hard to talk about that education, information, understanding is hard to come by or even discuss openly without someone trying to shut it down. It's part of why cheating happens so often, why STD and STI rates are the way they are and why teenage pregnancy is still an issue and is expanding to younger and younger women every year.
And I do think that if you feel threatened by an electronic medium, then you should talk to your partner about it. It's a security and self-esteem issue. I would feel fine about my partner using porn for pleasure if I were unable, unwilling, or just plain unavailable. I'd just want him to be honest with me about it. Men just tend to have a naturally higher sex drive than women, but if your drives are similar, then that's the best. Which is part of why people should have sex before committing themselves entirely to each other, kinda like kicking the tires on a car. I know that's a tired, overused expression, but it's true.
This isn't exactly what I had before, what I had before was eloquent and magical and could make you die by just reading it. Now you'll only sneeze and your pants will fall off. And this has gotten off the topic of my personal views on it.
I love the "watching porn is cheating" argument. Let me just say, it's not. Cheating involves and emotional and physical connection to another person, a real person. Porn is a fantasy aid, yes some people get addicted but some people get addicted to egg rolls but they're not evil are they? I don't think watching pictures on a screen is being unfaithful to your spouse, yes if it gets out of hand it can harmful to the relationship but you're still the only person touching your junk.
ReplyDeleteAs Kim said, sex is a biological imperative, and I would argue that it is necessary. Have you ever been around someone who hasn't had sex in a long time, they're not happy people. Lack of sex can lead to depression and anxiety.
In all honesty I find the debate to be silly, porn is a multi-billion dollar industry. It's not going anywhere. There are going to be people who watch and enjoy porn and people who don't, we all have the choice to watch or not. If it offends you that much don't watch it, but quite judging and insulting those of us who do. The funny thing about life is you only have to live your own, not anyone else's.
Kim: Thank you for a well-written, reasonable, civil response. We may have to agree to disagree on this issue, but I felt it was at least necessary to make a good go of it first.
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of prolonging this debate unnecessarily, I'd like to address the points that you made.
1. I'll agree with you that dishonesty is certainly a serious problem. What makes dishonesty wrong and lust okay? Both interdictions stem from the same moral system.
2. I don't believe in biological determinism. Our genes don't control our behavior. We do. Thousands of people override their genetic predispositions every day.
3. I will agree with you that religion (specifically my religion, Christianity) has often wrongly regarded sex in general as something dirty and shameful.
4. I sincerely doubt whether sex is as taboo as you say it is. My wife and I found more than enough off and online resources for spicing up our sex life. Sure, some were a bit sterile, but most of the resources we encountered were quite down-to-earth.
5. There are sex education programs all over the country. Most kids know a great deal by the age of ten. The problem is that those sex ed programs (and I realize I'm generalizing here) often don't teach self-control. Handing out condoms certainly doesn't help. Kids treat those like licenses.
6. I agree that you should talk to your partner when you feel threatened by something. Again, however, I'll have to disagree with the rest. I think it's reasonable to be threatened by some things. I wonder if you would truly react the way you think if you were actually in a relationship where your partner was openly using porn.
7. If sex was the only purpose of a romantic relationship, I'd agree with you that people should have sex before committing fully to one another. I maintain that we need not be controlled by our sexual drives.
Renee: While your contempt for the "watching porn is cheating" argument is obvious, your counterargument isn't. Sure, watching porn isn't materially the same as cheating, but porn also involves emotional and physical connections, and the people depicted in porn are real people. You may be the only person touching your junk, but most of the time you're wishing the people on the screen were. It's not a far jump from wishing to doing. I can't really speak for your egg rolls, but I swear one tried to bite me the other day.
I've been around plenty of people who've never had sex, including many of my close friends. It hasn't ruined their lives. They're STD free and haven't had any children they weren't prepared to care for.
You may find the debate silly, but the only reason porn is truly worth discussing is because it's not going anywhere. I certainly don't dispute your claim to free will regarding the subject. You're completely free to reject or accept what I've said, and to offer your own opinions in return. Just don't expect me to shut up if I disagree with you.